Turning Christian Guys Down – VIDEO Jul 30, 2014 | a guy's perspective, Dating/Courting, femininity, respect | 45 comments The gentlemen are welcome to join us in a respectful discussion on this topic. http:/ Share this:Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Google+ (Opens in new window)Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window)Like this:Like Loading... Related 45 Comments thefloatyboaty on July 30, 2014 at 10:03 pm Why reject? Have a serious, two-way interview; the girl will like him, or he will understand the reasons she doesn’t like him. peacefulwife on July 31, 2014 at 2:06 pm The floatyboaty, I think it would be fabulous for the Christian ladies to seek to know a Christian guy, to get to know his character, to have a real heart to heart conversation, or several, before there is any pressure to make a decision about a future committed relationship. Thanks for your comment! thefloatyboaty on July 30, 2014 at 10:07 pm BTW, good video. alcockell on July 31, 2014 at 7:27 am I was thinking – you know how in Corinthians, there had been thsi priestess culture so Paul told the women to zip it so they could be brought up to speed? Maybe there would need to be some kind of Compassion 101 training given in the church to bring young women down fromt heir “goddess” level to equal a la Galatians? And bring the men up? peacefulwife on July 31, 2014 at 2:04 pm Alcockell, Considering the messages we have all been marinating in in our culture, I think that would be a great idea. We do need classes and training as women to learn to see the lies and poison we have been swallowing from the world and we do need to replace it with the truth about God’s design for femininity, for masculinity, for marriage and for families. I am with you! JC on July 31, 2014 at 3:54 pm We need to replace the modern western worship of women with an appreciation for them–nature abhors a vacuum. 😉 We need a new portrayal of women that shows her constructive feminine potential, fulfillment for herself and others. Sometimes it can be hard for me to hit the brakes and realize that maybe a problem is that women don’t have what they need in that regard: encouragement of their great significance in the world–they’re not just decorations, but they can seek the beauty that God put in every one of them–who can do wonderful work for the kingdom of God in a special way. I have some optimism that if today’s women can be convinced that their femininity (not so much charm and looks) is a vital organ in a big, grand equation, they’ll find a wonderful satisfaction and personal fulfillment and they’ll seek their effectiveness in righteous femininity eagerly, even if it might entail some “dust and ashes” repentance for some. And, at the same time, for men, that men are worth protecting too–a message that’s certainly miserably lacking in the mainstream and barely anyone outside the MRM makes that a priority, which is sickening when you consider how much folks are much more eager to place expectations on men. So yeah, in some ways it’s a little bit the reverse scenario. Sorry to stimulate an off-topic discussion (sound on my ‘puter is dead for now) . . . I hope you don’t mind. 😉 peacefulwife on July 31, 2014 at 7:58 pm JC, I love this!!! Thank you for sharing this great encouragement with our sisters!! alcockell on July 31, 2014 at 2:41 pm I also speak partially for myself as one of the things I’m struggling with is the effects of being sexually abused by predatory girls when I was chrono 13, sociosexual age of 6-8 in 1984 due to at-the-time undiagnosed Asperger Syndrome. Add to that cogntive dissonance from being silenced by my assailants threatening to cry rape – AND the Dworkin/Mackinnon “ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS” message of the time… NOT fun to live through… hope i haven’t been gelded… peacefulwife on July 31, 2014 at 7:56 pm Alcockell, How my heart breaks to hear what happened when you were so young. 🙁 I pray that you might find healing, hope, strength, comfort, purpose and fulfillment in Christ. Thank you so much for sharing. These are exactly the kinds of reasons why God commands us not to judge others. We don’t know all of the trauma of the past or medical issues or scars and wounds that someone may be carrying. That is why I long to see all of my brothers and sisters in Christ be treated with respect, honor, compassion and the love of Christ. JC on July 31, 2014 at 10:37 pm Yeah, it’s bad enough to go through an experience like that, but to be a man and go through it means you have to deal with your well-being being such a low priority and watch the world’s romance about protecting women from “bad bad men” but not protective of men who are constantly demanded to produce and save the day. May I suggest checking out my blog? I saw that you have your own too and started taking a look–it’s time to start prioritize protecting men from whom productivity is demanded and seeing how we can cover all of those bases. Shawn on July 31, 2014 at 5:36 pm April, I really appreciate this video. In Christian circles, people’s ideas about dating can become extreme. Your perspective seems very balanced and I respect your challenging young women to treat men first and foremost as brothers in Christ. Also, because of the influence of the world, our view can focus too much on the physical rather than the on the spiritual and on a man’s character. Every time I read one of your posts I am encouraged to lead my single life in a Christ-honoring way. Thank you! peacefulwife on July 31, 2014 at 8:14 pm Shawn, You are most welcome! We will only be in a marriage or romantic early relationship for a short time. We will be brothers and sisters in Christ and joint heirs in Him forever in heaven together. I want to see us have God’s Spirit of unity together here. That was one of Jesus’ greatest desires for His people. I pray that we as Christian women might see our brothers in Christ as teammates, that we might seek to bless them, to build them up, to honor them, to join together with them to bring great glory to God by working together for God’s kingdom. When our brothers in Christ are hurting, beaten down, disrespected or mistreated, the whole Body suffers. When our brothers are most blessed and are strong spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically, the whole Body of Christ is more healthy, vibrant and able to carry out all that God desires to do through us. It is my prayer that God might bring a great awakening among my sisters, that we might reject the world’s ungodly ideas and embrace God’s truth and that we might be partners with Jesus and our Christian brothers to inspire them, encourage them, bless them and put our strength behind them that they might soar on wings like eagles and be the men and godly, Christlike leaders God most longs for them to be. JC on July 31, 2014 at 10:40 pm What wonderful music. I think I’m starting to float . . . 😀 I think we want to be productive. So much must change. peacefulwife on August 1, 2014 at 9:08 pm JC, So true. There are massive changes needed in our thinking as believers as women – changes that can only come about by the power of God’s Spirit. I am praying for a Great Awakening. Thank you for sharing! alcockell on August 1, 2014 at 2:45 am What is also needed is the death of gynocentrism, as this is the root behind the inherent selfishness of current feminist thought. In the current battles between feminist and non feminist women. A current meme common in today”s feminism is “bathing in your male tears”. Also, too many women view men as utilities. This needs to stop. Now. We are brothers, not packhorses. Thanks for the support. alcockell on August 1, 2014 at 3:27 am My point over the gynocentrism comment is that from my perspective as a sexually damaged man, your “I hope you find Christ’s peace” comments felt like the “keep warm and well fed” statement in James 2, with me as the beggar. Just wanted to drop that in the mix. It’s cold comfort for any man who’s been damaged by a woman that few women will truly see him and get alongside him. peacefulwife on August 1, 2014 at 8:45 pm alcockell, Goodness. I guess I am not exactly sure what it is that you are expecting me or other women to do for you to “come alongside you.” I hope we can agree that there is quite a difference between a believer offering food and clothing to someone who is hungry vs a woman attempting to help a man heal sexually to whom she is not married. As a woman and a believer in Christ, I do believe I can encourage my brothers, pray for them, hear them, exhort them and bless them in some ways. But, the New Testament is clear that it is not appropriate for a woman to have authority over a man to mentor him, teach him, instruct him or disciple him (I Timothy 2:12). God has given me a calling to mentor and disciple women – to carry out Titus 2:3-5. But it is godly men who are to disciple other men and who would need to come alongside a hurting man to help him heal spiritually and to help him to recover from sexual abuse in his life. My goal here is primarily to minister to my sisters in Christ and to disciple women. I do also desire to bless my brothers in Christ. But I am not a sex therapist, a licensed counselor, a psychiatrist, a pastor, or a man. Most Christian women cannot be any of those things to our brothers in Christ. I also do have biblical parameters to which I must confine myself even as I seek to love my brothers in Christ. Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity. I Timothy 5:1-2 My goal is to treat men as brothers with absolute purity. Some helpful resources may be: http://www.xxxchurch.org http://www.insight.org/purity My greatest desire is to point all people to Christ. I cannot heal anyone. I could not even heal myself. It is only Christ who was able to heal me and change me and get me out of the prison of sin that had me bound for so many years. It is only by Jesus’ power that any of us can find healing. His Spirit alone can cleanse us, give us new hearts and minds and regenerate our spirits. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and concerns. I do care very much about you and about you being able to heal. peacefulwife on August 1, 2014 at 10:23 pm alcockell, I do believe that men and women who have suffered sexual abuse in the past can absolutely find healing and can have a godly marriage. I know of couples that have been through such experiences. Many times, it is a very long process of healing and I would certainly recommend a mentoring couple or specialized, biblical, godly counseling to work through the trust issues and sexual issues starting before marriage. And, if someone is also facing the challenge of building a godly marriage with some level of autism/Asberger’s/ADHD/depression/bipolar (or any mental health issue), there will be additional needs and concerns to address before marriage and during marriage early on so that both the husband-to-be and wife-to-be can both approach this from a healthy way as a team. If your future wife had sexual abuse issues or mental health issues, then there would be greater obstacles. But, all things are possible in Christ, thankfully! I have seen Him heal people from sexual abuse, homosexuality, drug addiction, alcoholism, porn addiction, sex addiction… He is the Great Physician. I wonder if this post might be encouraging? Am I Too Damaged to Have a Godly Marriage? I do believe there is help for you – and for the thousands in similar situations. And I do believe a godly marriage is possible. It will require the same thing that building a godly marriage requires for any believer – dying to self, getting rid of any unhealthy and unbiblical ideas about marriage, masculinity, femininity, family and sex. It will require great faith and trust in God and a willingness to do things God’s way even when it seems scary. It will require a very purposeful rejecting of old ways of thinking and habits and worldly ideas and a very purposeful embracing of God’s Word and His truth. It will take time. There will be pain. A lot of pain, most likely. But there can also be great joy and healing. That is my prayer for you and your future wife. alcockell on August 1, 2014 at 11:09 pm I was meaning generically. not personally. It’s OK – I think I was conducting a thought experiment – the idea of being “untouchable” because of abuse was a fear of mine. I think it’s because the feminist model would have me as the first in the gas chambers… thanks for the resources though… was referring to the absolute gender-neutral baseline in Galatians as opposed to the insistence on chivalry, which because of my damage, would out me in a subservient position… But I hope you can see what I was driving at in theory… 😉 I’ll talk to xxxchurch… peacefulwife on August 2, 2014 at 6:17 am alcockell, Thank you for clarifying – I was definitely unsure about your implications. I appreciate that! 🙂 Unfortunately, there are thousands and thousands of sexual abuse victims today – male and female. I have counseled over a thousand women, lost exact count now, but I have seen the fall out from sexual abuse (from childhood/adolescence) in marriage both for wives and husbands. I have also seen God work miracles. I would love for you to think of yourself as a man saved by the grace of Christ – if you have received Him as both your Savior and your Lord. If you are in full submission to Him, He is absolutely able to heal you. And He is able to transform you into the image of Christ. He is able to bless you and to make something incredibly beautiful from your life. This is a safe place. No one is going to hurt you here. 🙂 alcockell on August 2, 2014 at 7:08 am Became a Christian at 17… the one thing that’s kept me going and safe… Yeah – I suppose it’s the whole first-experience-being-abusive thing.. Thanks for the support- and if we don’t ever catch up in person here – when we’re booked into our rooms when we get called home – cuppa on me? peacefulwife on August 2, 2014 at 7:11 am al, Aw! That sounds awesome! I would love to catch up with you over coffee. I can’t wait to hear all that God has in store for you. MMM! Coffee in heaven. That sounds like a plan! peacefulwife on August 2, 2014 at 12:38 pm alcockrell, I was praying for you this morning, and thought about a book that may be very healing – I personally believe every Christian needs to read it… “The Normal Christian Life” by Watchman Nee. And, I was thinking, “Does my brother, Al, know who he truly is in Christ? I can’t help but think about Romans 8 where Paul describes how we are more than conquerors through Christ!” This is where I pray that all of us – all of my brothers and sisters in Christ – might live on a daily basis. Watchman Nee’s book describes how to actually get to this point in real life by God’s power. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set youa free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,b God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.c And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives lifed because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because ofe his Spirit who lives in you. 12Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.f And by him we cry, “Abba,g Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Present Suffering and Future Glory 18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21thath the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, whoi have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. More Than Conquerors 31What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”j 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8 I also pray that you might become the man God desires you to be and designed you to be, that you might shine powerfully for Christ and be fruitful in His kingdom and experience His supernatural love, peace, joy, goodness and all of the fruit of His Spirit. I pray for you to be released from your fear and for healing for your brokenness. I pray for God to use you mightily to bring many to Jesus and that He might empower you to find healing and then to extend His healing to other men who have suffered in similar ways, perhaps. Thanks for being on this journey with me! peacefulwife on August 2, 2014 at 6:26 am alcockell, I am praying for you to be able to overcome your fears and any bitterness that may be in your heart from the pain you have endured – through Jesus. His perfect love is able to drive out all of our fears. I have some posts about fear. They are written for women, but may be helpful: Fear Fuels Our Need to Control Facing Our Deepest Fears Experiencing God’s Victory Over Fear I also have some Youtube videos on my channel, April Cassidy, about fear. May God richly bless your walk with Christ and every aspect of your life! RG on August 2, 2014 at 12:20 am A great unbiblical inequity taught in church is that “God is holy and just” when addressing men’s sins, but “God is full of love, grace, and mercy” when rationalizing and excusing women’s sins. The Church decides how much “grace” or “justice” one “deserves” based on their sex, not their repentence, and only men are expected to endure “the consequences” of their sins. Women receive full pardon of their “consequences” along with “God’s grace,” so they really don’t ever need to demonstrate the fruit of true repentence. Disobedience will never be held against them because they never need to demonstrate accountability to anything. Female sins are just excused with, “Oops! My bad!,” and life moves on as if nothing ever happened. But men must pay amends for each perceived “offense,” even when such “offenses” are true biblical corrections of women’s sins. The church is too eager to shower women in “forgiveness” and “grace” by transferring all the consequences of female sins onto men. And men are expected to shoulder this misplaced guilt silently as an act of “love” and “servant leadership.” But that’s not the love written in the bible. This is what happens when the church defines “love” through the sole lens of female priorities over biblical commands. This is the essence of “Christian” feminism – women’s desires always trump scripture, and if a woman is ever upset, then scripture is misused to place all guilt onto men to make women feel better. “I guess I am not exactly sure what it is that you are expecting me or other women to do for you to “come alongside you.” We are expecting you to lay down your goals and priorities to minister to the needs of your brothers in Christ. That is exactly what women want and receive from men, but won’t do for men in return. When Christian women say, “I hope you find Christ’s peace,” they are basically saying, “Wow! It sucks to be you! I’ll pretend to feel bad for you for a minute, but I’m not going to lift a finger or inconvenience myself to help you in any truly meaningful way because “God is just” for men, and “God is full of grace” for women.” Christian women want to “show” they “love” men by expressing temporary fake pity, while men need practical, ongoing ministry to address many church-inflicted wounds. “Come alongside you” means finding-out and placing men’s needs as a priority in practical life. We don’t expect women to solve fundamental wounds directly or personally, because that is not realistic, but we do expect you to stop playing church and make ministry to men a real priority. This can start by following April’s teaching, correcting the women in church when they sin against and disrespect men, and creating prayer groups in your churches that gather and pray for men’s real needs as we define them. We don’t want your useless pity, because that does nothing to help us grow! We want your respect, encouragement, and prayers! We want you to show you care about men through the ongoing fruit of your biblical actions, because that is the only thing that will prove to us that you will no longer treat us as your “enemy.” peacefulwife on August 2, 2014 at 6:39 am RG, I really appreciate your willingness to expand on what we as women can do to specifically bless our brothers. I don’t believe that all women have “fake love” when they pray for their brothers to find the peace and healing of Christ. I certainly did not intend that at all! But thank you for sharing some of our brothers’ perspectives and how those words may feel hollow at times and how we do need to watch our motives and love with real love not with pity. That is helpful. What things can we pray about for our brothers, would you suggest? How can we show men in a forum like this that we are your teammates? RG on August 2, 2014 at 12:10 pm “What things can we pray about for our brothers, would you suggest?” Ask God to change your hearts and perspectives first, that God might show and give you HIS heart for Christian men, and that you might see us as He does. Ask God to convict you of your sins against Him and your sins against men, that you would stop bad habits, and replace them with godly ones. Ask for a “burden” and desire to pray for the things that men need in life, starting with: 1) God transforming our hearts and minds with His true love and grace for men, that we might encounter, accept, and receive His love, grace, and God-given value for men, and that we might hold onto Him and His commands for us instead of accepting the additional/unbiblical teachings that churches and women try to bury us under. 2) God showing us (and you) the biblical definitions and distinctions between “love,” “service,” and “leadership,” and that He would fill us (and you) with His wisdom and understanding as we learn to correct our thoughts and behaviors to match those biblical definitions. 3) God bringing us true godly mentors that will teach us how to become “Godly men” and “leaders” as God defines those things, for the purpose of pleasing Christ with our lives, not to please or “serve” women. 4) God’s wisdom and direction for how to approach people and life circumstances in strong, effective ways that will honor Christ and lead others to Christ. 5) God’s help to find and fulfill our callings as men (as God designed and desires us to be, not how the world or women desire us to be). 6) God’s wisdom, direction, blessing, and help to find and excel in good employment and business opportunities, along with His correct understanding and mindset for that aspect of our authority/responsibility role as men. 7) We need a lot of respect, encouragement, prayers, and your patience as we learn and grow in our godly authority/leadership roles, and we need you to withhold most of your criticisms, trusting that God will complete His work in us. 8) Pray that God will open the hearts and minds of Pastors and church leaders to see the poisonous deceit of Feminism in the Church, and that God will show Pastors how to rip that “evil weed” out of His church by the root! Pray that God will show pastors how to discern biblical/unbiblical teachings according to the word of God as it is written, not as they wish it had been written to seem “less offensive.” Pray that God would convict and empower Pastors to teach and lead biblically with holy fear or that He would remove disobedient ones from their pulpits, and out of His way. (And please be willing to follow and submit to your leadership as well). “How can we show men in a forum like this that we are your teammates?” 1) Pray for God’s wisdom, direction, and encouragement in our lives. 2) Demonstrate that you are repentant, humble, peaceful, willing to listen, learn, and apply corrections to yourselves without fighting and resisting us. 2) Make an effort to treat all men in your lives well in ways that are respectful and encouraging to us. If you are in a relationship with a man, then do what April tells you to do – and only for the right motivations and reasons. 3) Ask your Pastors and church leaders to make church ministry to men a real, practical, and funded priority. Don’t just talk about it! 4) Tell your Pastors and Church leaders about April’s websites/ministry. Ask them to buy her book when it is released, and ask the Pastor’s wives and older women to consider applying April’s teachings to their lives before leading the younger women. 5) Don’t wait for church ladies to lead you. Apply April’s teachings to your life for a reasonable period of time until you are ready, then begin teaching other young ladies to do the same. 6) Correct the women in your Church who sin against and disrespect men. If you would rather “keep the peace” with women who insist on sinning against and disrespecting men or dismiss men’s concerns as “no big deal,” then you have already chosen which side you’re on. peacefulwife on August 2, 2014 at 12:33 pm RG, Wow! THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!! Thank you so very much for sharing. I love this list of prayer requests. I’m on it! JC on August 3, 2014 at 5:27 pm “How can we show men in a forum like this that we are your teammates?” 1 Corinthians 12:26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Seeing that a lot of guys here are on the same wavelength, I wish I could understand the position of my sisters in Christ on a lot of things that are happening to men in the world. Women can assault men in public with impunity, accusations of women to men are automatically believed, the bias in DV and divorce cases are getting so extreme that I will very much go as far as to say that, in this day in age, men are oppressed–with women’s abilities to hurt men with impunity in so many ways, men lacking resources that minister to their healing and protection, and on top of all of that, still being held to the expectation of “be a man,” society is becoming downright unlivable for men. (if you ever wanted info on these points, I could provide you info and studies). I could write pages to expound on all of this but I’ll leave that alone It’s NOT the individual woman’s fault that this is going on, but men have a huge fight on their hands for reclaiming their demonized masculinity, freedom, and equal value as human beings. Many of us really, really want to be heroes, leaders, and rescuers among people. But when war is waged against men from whom we’re supposed to protect, that complicates things. Personally, I’d like at least to be assured that my sisters in Christ don’t stand for this stuff–this war waged against men. And when they wonder why men behave the way they do, they’re willing to truly investigate what men are up against legally, socially, and culturally. I’m trying to do the same for women in the sense that I believe many women don’t want to be put on the goddess pedestal, but want to be understood in their femininity and their humanity. Please help us understand whose side you’re on–from my point of view it’s obvious that the better part of the world tends to protect women and takes the side against that which causes women harm, so likewise please help us understand whose side you’re on in this mess that (I hope) none of us wanted. Sorry if we’re all beating this to death, April. I try not to add stress to you but clarity. Speaking for myself, my logical conclusion is that if we want to help women, helping men makes sense, as it’s obvious men will never stop being called upon to help women as most men really want to do. That is to say, we can think of this in terms of women’s benefit as much as men’s–1 Corinthians 12:26. In any case, much love to you all, precious brothers and sisters. 🙂 peacefulwife on August 3, 2014 at 8:59 pm JC, Thank you so much for sharing your masculine perspective! Yes, men do have many things against them in our culture today. I am not sure most women really realize that. But there is a battle for men – for their masculinity, for their equal legal rights, for equality of personhood. I believe men and women have been greatly damaged in our culture, even in the church. Men and women need help. I want to see us reclaim our godly femininity and masculinity and rise by God’s power to become the healthy, Spirit-filled, obedient, holy people God commands us to be. Yes, when any of us are hurt, we are all hurt, and when any of us are honored, we are all honored. I long to see us walk in unity. That was Jesus’ deepest prayer for His church the night before He was crucified. And that is my prayer for us as brothers and sisters in Christ! In the love of Christ, April JC on August 8, 2014 at 4:38 am I thought I’d share this thought that’s making a lightbulb go off in my mind. It just strikes me the way I see women just know SO well how sacred they are, just knowing with every fiber of their being how wrong it is for women to be done an injustice by a man, with vocal righteous indignation. That’s why I often wonder why the indignation isn’t anywhere close when the injustice goes in the opposite direction, BUT, the trend is definitely changing in a lot of ways. 🙂 Also, though, us guys really need to learn how to do the same thing, such as in conversation–maybe take some lessons from women in that department. We’re obviously not as good at it, so that’s probably a big part of the misunderstanding. A big problem is the shame of feeling hurt which is a totally garbage take on masculinity. 😉 peacefulwife on August 2, 2014 at 7:09 am RG, I know you and I have talked about these things before. But, for my readers, I want to point out that obviously in the Bible, men and women are equally sinful in the eyes of God. For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23. We as women often don’t see our sin in our Christian culture today. I didn’t see mine for many years. You can check out my “About” page to see what my sins were and how blind I was to them and how God woke me up. I have posts about some of these issues for ladies who are interested: Are Women Spiritually and Morally Superior to Men? But I’m a GOOD Person! A Wake Up Call for Women We Have All Been Greatly Affected by Feminism I am praying for God to heal the gap between men and women in our churches, and for Him to draw all of us to Himself, that we might live by the power of His Holy Spirit and that we might live lives worthy of Christ, taking up our cross daily, following Him wherever He might lead, giving up worldly ideas and worldly influences so that we can embrace the truth of Christ and His Word and that He might empower us to shine brightly for His kingdom in this dark world. JC on August 8, 2014 at 3:43 pm And . . . one final note because I felt like I need to pay my respects–the exceptions to what I said among women are seriously treasures to me. (I heard what you said, of course, about your opinion that most women are not really aware of things going on against men) I hope it goes without saying but you’re always tremendously appreciated April–just making extra special sure there’s no mistake about that. 😉 peacefulwife on August 8, 2014 at 4:54 pm Thanks, JC. There is a great chasm between our brothers and sisters in Christ today and between men and women in our culture. It breaks my heart! I pray God might bridge the chasm and bring His Spirit of unity, understanding, peace and cohesion. JC on August 8, 2014 at 5:15 pm Yes ma’am. I’m quite agreed–because so many good things are possible, so many great opportunities for good work and learning too. I often struggle to get a good foothold on understanding these situations but (for me) I’m feeling more and more secure about it, I think. tj on August 2, 2014 at 8:55 pm The best rejection to a date request I ever received was from a non-Christian woman when I was in college. There was nothing special or elaborate about her tone or explanation. I was definitely attracted to her and finally got up the courage to ask her out. I simply asked if she’d like to have lunch with me and she told me she “no, I’m seeing someone else right now.” Her tone of voice and body language verified to me that she was being honest and wasn’t trying to put me down. She did thank me for the offer. I think things like this can be over-thought (my opinion only) and made out to be more complicated than they should be. I agree with you April that women need to consider the guy’s feelings given that some of us are a bit shy and reluctant to ask a woman out for a variety of reasons. Then again, we ALL need to consider the feelings of others as we “do unto others…” and try to follow Christ’s teaching. Thank you for addressing the idea of “mixed signals” and how women can be flirty with a guy then when he responds by asking her out, she trashes all over him. I would hope that ladies who see this kind of behavior in other women would pull them aside and recommend they not behave this way. peacefulwife on August 3, 2014 at 6:30 am tj, I appreciate your thoughts so much! I am sure we ladies can overthink lots of things. We are probably pretty “good” at doing that! 🙂 But I hope to give my sisters some ideas to consider. It is easy for us as women to look at how big and strong men are and to assume that they are difficult to hurt, that they would “get over” things very easily because they are men. But I want us to be much more careful with our brothers’ hearts. I also agree that if we see other women leading our brothers in Christ on and then rejecting them, that it would be wonderful if ladies would address that! seventiesjason on August 10, 2014 at 6:00 pm TJ…I was going to say the same thing, but you got it. The most polite rejections I have had from women…..were from women who were not Christians (when I was living in the world). I know some of the problem today stems from “how” to approach a woman in church, and “how” to politely turn a man down for an offer of a date. Men are hearing from the Internet, from pastors, from books, from comments on forums like this: Men. Ask us out. We don’t bite. We all know that this is not 100% true either…. In church it’s hard to date. A man asks women out “too much” in church and he’s viewed as someone who came to church to date, and not grow with Christ. Not to praise and worship. He gets the reputation of “that guy” and no REAL man of God wants that. If he doesn’t approach, many men are labeled “He’s called to singleness. He doesn’t approach any of us” and that may not be true either. Maybe he’s afraid of being labeled as “that guy” and most Americans go to small churches (under 100 people) and it’s VERY hard to navigate a singles scene in a place like this without causing hurt feelings, jealousy, and anger. Many Godly men who DO love Jesus are not going to risk the relationship with their church family. As romantic to some women as that may seem…….is it worth it to the Savior? Women just need to be honest. Treat someone the way they like to be treated. To love, and feel a little humility that a man found her godly / nice / smart / attractive enough to ask out, or want to get to know more. I mean, this guy that you give a polite “no thanks” instead of a nuclear rejection……..MORE than likely WILL be someone’s husband someday…..wouldn’t you want to be the woman to help encourage that??????????????? Great post Peaceful! Excellent video peacefulwife on August 10, 2014 at 10:28 pm seventiesjason, I think it is so helpful for women to hear men’s experience in the church. It’s hard being a Christian man. It’s hard being a Christian woman. It’s hard being a Christian. It’s hard being a single. There are very few parameters and consistent expectations or guidelines to go by these days. I love the idea of us extending some compassion, mercy, understanding, humility and the love of Christ to others. I would love to see the ladies be polite and gentle when turning Christian guys down. We could at least start with gentleness – unless the situation is obviously dangerous or extreme. I know there are times when we as women have to be more firm and there are times that it is scary if we feel like particular men are actually “stalking” us. Those situations will require much more firmness and direct bluntness. But there are many times when we could be more gentle with our brothers, in my view. Great discussion! Thanks so much! JC on August 10, 2014 at 11:09 pm Yeah, exactly. I’m not in the dating game whatsoever, but perhaps, even if the woman doesn’t want the guy, she could commend his boldness. That is, if the man she DOES want some day she wants to be equally bold and pursue her, well encouraging even a guy she doesn’t want for the gesture could help start a trend that gets to a guy she does want some day. 😀 Just a thought–might be (yet) another way of looking at it for a woman. I forget if April actually said that in the video–wonderful btw April. jack on August 6, 2014 at 12:30 pm I think women – especially the Christian ones – need a lot of training on how to reject men with more grace and humility. Let me tell a little joke: —————————- Little Johnny walks into the kitchen one day, and reaches for the cookie jar. His mother slaps him as as hard as possible, screams at him, and tell him to never go near the cookie jar before a meal again. Johnny walks out the door, devastated. The neighbor lady, seeing this whole event, asks the mother “wow, he must have tried that many times before, for you to treat him so severely”. The mother says, “actually, he’s never done that before at all. I just wanted to make sure he never tried it again.” ———————————————————————- This is the nature of the “nuclear rejection” that is so famously known to men in the Church (outside the church as well sometimes also). The nuclear rejection is the reaction of a woman who is so horrified that a particular man asked her out, that she essentially deploys ant poison, rat poison, cannon fire and a nuclear weapon to absolutely ensure that he never approaches her again. Why is it so important that he not approach again? Because women feel uneasy when a man who they deem “unworthy” approaches them. These women are not trying to hurt the guy, they are just so horrified that he approached them, that they want to shoo the leper away as efficiently as possible. I have been on the receiving end of this a few times, and you never get used to it. Oddly, it is never the extremely pretty girls who do this. It is usually the more plain girls who do this. They are in competition for top-level male attention, and any reminder that they are not going to get a top-level male will be met with a harsh response. The real thing that is at work here is pride, of course. It is about thinking more highly of oneself that one should. It is about having a desire to be elite, and taking your fears and anger out on others. Thus proving that it is hard to love others when you do not love yourself, or love God. When a person seeks to be socially justified by attracting a high-level man or woman, they set themselves up to practice a form of idolatry. tj on August 6, 2014 at 9:14 pm Standing Ovation! jack on August 6, 2014 at 1:02 pm Also, the gossiping to other women about a guy asking them has a purpose. This is a way for a woman to request other women to build her up and say “you can do better than him”. It is a means by which she can try and disqualify the guy. Of course, she does not realize that she is also making him look bad in front of the other women. Once gossiped about, no woman will want to be seen as the one who is dating “that loser”. Really, without wise older women to guide them, the modern young woman causes all kinds of damage without knowing it. JC on August 11, 2014 at 12:02 am Hey and just another FYI, I really appreciate your comment (April) in your video about staying as a sister in Christ to a guy–being in good relations so long as nothing terribly unpleasant is going on. I’m not looking to date, but I’m really really happy when I think women care. 🙂 peacefulwife on August 11, 2014 at 5:58 pm You’re welcome, JC!